Join the Official Discord Server for the opportunity to parttake in events, giveaways and more!

Server Reset Deba.. i mean Discussion

DanSau

Known Member
#1
Let's have a big o'l friendly talk about a server reset.

As very few of you probably know. since not everyone was online. Sirk brought up an interest in a full server reset to be done at some point, no date was set nor do I think a date is anywhere near until it has all been discussed and agreed upon, so don't go around screaming "Oh no! I'm going to lose my house!" or "is the reset this week!?!?!?" just yet.

Let us face the facts here people, a world reset needs to happen at some point, we can't stay on 1.12.2 forever, it is just not good for the server. We won't be as popular as we have the potential to be, we are not really here to talk about whether or not a world reset should be done since that is just a silly discussion.

I would like to talk about the reset details:
Should we reset player data also? This would include Player Vaults, In game ranks (not donator ranks, those would transfer over no matter what ofc) and balances.

I personally do not think resetting player data would be good for the server since it would remove hard work put in by old players.
I also think we should prioritize reducing the impact of a world reset as much as possible since this is already a lot for established players. There is no benefit to resetting the current player data,
The eco will not change if you are unhappy with the eco, you would need to balance all the jobs another way

But, there is a downside to not resetting player data, that is that donators will get an unfair advantage in the items they get to move over, since non-donators will not be able to transfer any items.
So, I have a solution for this,
Everyone will get 10 player vaults that they may use to transfer over any items they would like, but, you may not use your donator pvs, those will not be moved over, so every item you wish to transfer over to the new world would be via these special player vaults, and we ban shulkers for being added, or shulkers with items in them, if that is possible, something I am not sure about.

Leave your comment down below, remember to be friendly and try to understand everyone's side of the story :D
 

KillaSnow

Helper
Staff member
#2
Despite me really not wanting to rebuild my base, I actually do agree with this. It'd be nice to go to the next version, but keep our ranks and have the opportunity to take things we have now, over. Of course, it sucks you have to re-build things, however, a reset is almost inevitable for a server for this kind, so to be able to at least have this in the talks before anything is set in stone is great and gives the community and idea of where we are at in things.

In short, I agree to this, reluctantly, but I do agree. :D
 
#3
Personally, as a person who has spent most of the server building and improving his town, its a really difficult decision. I Understand that we have to move up versions and that the world is pretty griefed to begin with. I Had some talks with dan about how we should implement a way of resetting the main world without town claims being affected, so like a fresh start except for towns pre-claimed. although i understand it would be hard, it's just what i have to think.

Personally, i think the player vault thing would be kind of messy, same with the shulker thing being banned. To begin with, there are a lot of inactive players that still play from time to time, and to message them all and tell them to move their stuff is really hard to do and coordinate, and if we fail to do so they would be mad upon seeing all their stuff gone. Second of all, a lot of people keep their stuff in shulker boxes, and just straight up banning them from the transfer would be really harsh aswell.

The Azertu scene is good right now, although i would suggest looking into this in a near future, maybe once 1.14 is implemented into Minecraft. For the time being, i just don't see a good way of moving and transfering without problems like loosing stuff, glitches, bugs and angry people.
-Valtek
 
#4
May be easier to give node for 10 pvs to everyone by default like 3-7 days before server reset, give them time to put items in, then after reset, give them like 3 more days of it to unload their stuff, then remove the node. I dont know how you guys have your perms and all set up, but when you remove the node from default it shouldnt negatively effect donors, as long as you guys have some sorta default rank or something maybe... just a thought that would theoretically be easy to do and would work.
 
#5
I understand the benefits and reasons for this reset, but I am somewhat against it due to the reason that for the past months I've been slowly building multiple layers of my farm and started to expand my base. I wouldn't mind the reset if I played with more people that would be with me to rebuild but I am by myself most of the time as my friends are no longer active. I used to have the time to grind and build on minecraft, but as of lately I don't.
Although, the player vaults would allow me to bring over items, it is the builds that I put so much time and effort to make that is important.
However, I do understand that a map reset and update to the latest versions would be healthy for the server and that would require a few sacrifices from everybody as well. I also don't see the point of delaying this map reset if it will happen eventually. Delaying it will just allow people more time to progress just for it to be lost.

Just my two cents.
 
#6
How about to make 2 towny server one the old one. one the new (1.13 or what not). Make a game lobby so the player can select the towny they wish to play. This way the old player keep their builds a part of the server updates. I dont know if this will work but it will be dandy
 
#7
While I do understand all the advantages of a server update, I think that losing job levels, /ranks, McMMO stats, and ingame balance would severely impact the server, since the grind of those really is the backbone of the community. Taking away all this progress would be devastating for many.

Furthermore, I know a lot of people, including myself, who have spent countless hours on building. I would be really sad to see all my hours go into the drain, and I am sure many feel the same way.

I used to run a big server, about twice the player base of Azertu, and while we did regular full resets (like every 8th/9th month or so), it wasn't a big problem since everyone knew that was the way it was run (and the grinding was minimal compared to here). On Azertu, we keep telling people that the main world never gets reset, so people actually invest a lot of time in building and grinding.

I like what #6 is suggesting - make two Towny worlds instead, maybe not two separate servers, just two worlds. Although this probably wouldn't achieve the same as an total update would.
 
#8
I think the same as Chrras two worlds would be good one for a new world and one for the old one where you keep ranks and stats on jobs and mcmmo. it would make some people most likely change to a different server if they were to lose everything plus as it is stated it would be unfair for non-donators as they have to start from scratch and donators dont.
 
#9
Here is what I think. I have a massive nether farm, would I be willing to part with it, in exchange for a server update? YES! I would. I do think that we should all get some special /PVS that we can open, put things into that are duplicated, and then saved, once saved, no longer accessible, that way we can't sell stuff and put more in, it would be kind of like a game to see who can get where by the time it all resets. For player data however, when the reset happens, our normal pv's and ender chest should be reset or, heck, we could all reset our ender chests when we feel like, be handed enchanted shulker boxes that we can put into an ender chest that was previously reset, because that carries from world to world... Also, we need a world reset because I kinda gave people access to an OP wither farm and killed the spawner market..
 

DanSau

Known Member
#10
I think the same as Chrras two worlds would be good one for a new world and one for the old one where you keep ranks and stats on jobs and mcmmo. it would make some people most likely change to a different server if they were to lose everything plus as it is stated it would be unfair for non-donators as they have to start from scratch and donators dont.
I am not sure you read my post?
I gave solutions that would reduce all unfairness between donors and non-donors, it would be by giving everyone 10 pvs and banning shulkers from being added.
I do not think adding a new world just for an update is the way to go, personally
 
#12
But minecraft updates will become more frequent so be careful about how often the server jumps up like maybe once every 2-4 years I dont know but 1.14 is awesome tho
 
#13
As a newbie, who just spent a few days exploring, I agree with a reset.
Everywhere I explored had a town- some still active, but most not...and there is seriously too much ocean (with none of the 1.13 benefits).
 

KillaSnow

Helper
Staff member
#14
Just a second note that someone touched on and that I would like to touch on a bit more.
In my opinion, the server reset warning would be around two weeks in advance. This would give viable time for the players that are on almost daily to prepare, along with the players that are on every few days or on the weekends to prepare. I feel though anything less would not be sufficient. For the times if it was announced, you would see the market shift a lot. However, it would also possibly promote you to grind your job to get some extra funds to use after the reset.


As a newbie, who just spent a few days exploring, I agree with a reset.
Everywhere I explored had a town- some still active, but most not...and there is seriously too much ocean (with none of the 1.13 benefits).
Along with what Lady_Tivona stated, the new oceans would add a most interesting aspect to the server, possibly opening new aspects to the market, in addition to base designs. As I look at it, the map would be getting a reset, but in return, a new map with new blocks and environments would now be available to the players! I personally love the water so being able to have a place near or in the ocean would be awesome!

That's just my second take seeing some of the comments and concerns from other players :D
 
#15
Well 1.14 come out soon. that last few snapshots have been bug fixes so they are preparing to release soon my guess is next month or the one after that so could we skip up to 1.14 instead.
 

KillaSnow

Helper
Staff member
#16
Well 1.14 come out soon. that last few snapshots have been bug fixes so they are preparing to release soon my guess is next month or the one after that so could we skip up to 1.14 instead.
It's not just down to the latest minecraft version, but also due to the plug-ins. If the plug-ins don't support 1.14, then there is no way we go to it.
 
#17
After seeing everything in this discussion and looking at each other's point of views, i think i might be on board with a reset.

As i have said, im a person that has spent his majority of the time in the server building and improving my town, but thinking about it, a reset would bring fresh and improved areas where i could do such things. As impressive and big as my builds are, i do have some problems about locations and there is no way to move them now. So, in my opinion, a fresh and new updated map would be good, but with some problems in between. If you can find a good way for the reset and item transfers so it goes smoothly, i think it can be a good thing and i'll be on board.

Now, as many people mentioned above, i think not transfering balances and ranks and everything will just kill everyone, their motivations and the server really. Literally. A year of hard work just to be thrown out, Personally i wouldn't be happy with this, along with many other players. It's just deleting everything we had and worked for. I Understand its a fresh start but, in my opinion, it is just affecting everyone and their work put into the server.

Anyway, i feel this topic has created enough controversy already and i just think it's best to think it rationally and overtime, let's not rush to a decision yet atleast.

-Val
 
#18
I just saw this post. Should have responded to this one instead of the other one : P

I completely agree with almost everything Dan said. I think that shulker boxes should be allowed to store things in pv's. Maybe have a "reset crate" that is redeemable once by anyone, that gives you 40 (or more?) shulker shells. Of course this would crash the shulker box market (or what is left of one, 35k shulker boxes pff). But honestly shulker boxes really aren't that op on the server, mostly just fancy chests. I don't think that we should be limited with how much we can store, since we earned all of that stuff, so crashing a market so unimportant as the shulker box market would not really be too big of a deal for something as important as that. I, myself, have waaay more than 10 dubs of important items, so shulker boxes would be fairly important for me.

Other than that, though, I think that it wouldn't really be too big of a deal to reset the server. It would hurt to lose all that playtime (I think by the time the reset happens I'll probably have invested around 40 days of playtime into building), but imo that's only a small part of the server, and the new features would be worth it.

A few things I'd like to add:

I think that there should be an at least one month warning before the reset, and then somewhere between 1 day and 1 week before the reset, all towns could be disbanded, and all protections removed, making it so that inactive players' items could be saved (It would end up getting reset anyways, so may as well recycle).

Also I think that market shops should be reserved for their original owners, and town names as well (sorry dan lol)
 

SirKillian

Administrator
Staff member
#19
I feel like there is a lot of misconception in this thread and therefore ill share my opinion.

First of all, I think a lot of players don't really understand the meaning behind a reset and therefore making a few statements that feel a bit out of place. The reason why we would consider a server reset is actually very simple.

World Generation
A server reset would allow us to implement 1.13 (and perhaps even 1.14) features into the main world. While not everyone really cares about this. I still think its a valid point to be made. I can imagine there is a lot of people that would like to live in one of the new oceans and perhaps in the new villages 1.14 will bring to the game.

While we could also just update the server and reset the resource world I do NOT believe this is exciting enough.
I strongly believe new and perhaps even old players would want to live in the new biomes.


Server Features
While new features aren't always extremely hard to be added, There is definitely a few stuff we would like to change which are impossible without a reset. I'll give one simple example because I feel like a lot of players will actually question this.

The relic system is something I wanted to redo for a long time. I don't think Relics are special enough, and I strongly believe we can improve on this so much. However, why would it need a server restart right? Why not just add the new relics and stop giving out the current ones? Well, This would mean the "old" relics will still be in circulation and spread all over the place. We currently have over 200 unique relics and trust me, there is a LOT of relics spread around the server. If a new player comes across these items they will be wondering how to get them. we will then have to tell them its impossible, and this will be a disappointment for those players. Also, keeping the old relics will completely defeat the purpose of the new system as people will keep using the old items and not really bother getting the new ones. Anyways, This was just one example and there is a few other things we would like to improve on to make sure people stay excited in the long term.


Server Performance
This would probably one of the biggest issues we would run into IF we decided to do an actual reset. I think its very clear that a reset would mean the server should update to 1.13+ (maybe even 1.14 depending on how fast it releases) and new features. However, the reason why Azertu is still running on 1.12.2 is because 1.13.2 is honestly really not that great performance wise. While a few of you will debate this... I spend some time updating the server to a somewhat stable 1.13.2 version without doing any world resets whatsoever. This resulted in a 20-25% performance loss (without any players online...), not to mention the dozens of bugs I ran into while attempting this update.
  • Missing/corrupted chunks after updating the world to 1.13.2
  • Emptied chest and furnaces after updating the world to 1.13.2
  • Weird inventory behavior shifting items around in chests (really weird ikr...) after updating the world to 1.13.2
While a lot of the above issues have been worked on by spigot (spigot is what servers use to allow multiplayer minecraft) I still believe its worth mentioning these issues. With such insecure method of converting the world I 100% believe a map reset would be the ideal solution. The reason why 1.13.2 is so extremely harsh on world conversion is because the games code drastically changed between 1.12.2 and 1.13. This should not be an issue for future updates and only counts for the the updates from 1.12.2 to a newer version of minecraft.

Besides these world converting issues I also noticed a big spike in CPU and Memory usage. Another thing i'd like to mention is that Minecraft 1.13.2 itself (besides from the server itself) feels "laggy and buggy" This means its less pleasant for you to play minecraft regardless of what server you're playing on.

With all the above mentioned I think I'm confident enough to state that Azertu WILL NOT update to Minecraft 1.13.2 but rather waits for a STABLE 1.14 release and add an additional world/server reset.


Why not just reset the world?
What's the fun in that? Don't you guys want a real challenge? :rolleyes:

While I'm well aware people might dislike the idea of a full server restart... I think it will be healthy for the server economy. Perhaps we can even make ranks cheaper? Who knows...


Frequently Asked Questions
  • IF the server resets, will I lose my Premium rank? (rank from the server store)
    • No, you won't. Ranks, Disguises and other cosmetic perms will be kept. However, Reforged gear and monthly crate gear might be forfeit. I hope you understand the reasoning behind this.

  • IF a reset happens, will I be able to transfer items?
    • No. IF we decide to do a reset we will reset the world, /pv's, enderchests, Jobs data, Ranks, balances, etc...

  • Can't you add a second server and connect it to a hub. so we can keep the old world?
    • We will not add a second towny server. This will split up the community heavily and result in 2 servers with half the player-count then what we are used to right now. And this is less pleasant to play on.

  • IF a reset happens, will I be able to transfer any of my builds?
    • No.

  • When will this reset happen?
    • As of right now we have made absolutely zero plans for a reset and therefore it might take a while for it to actually happen.

  • What about my town name? will I be able to keep this?
    • We would allow players to reserve their town name so that people can keep their current town name.


Final Conclusion
While I do understand people have invested a lot of their time in builds, ranks and jobs. I do believe an occasional fresh start is a good idea (and eventually it would have to happen regardless). You will have new things to do and not get bored so easily. It might make older players come back and make new players excited to actually make a chance to reach /baltop or whatever.

I would also like to address this once again: We have made absolutely no plans to do a reset yet. The only reason I'm making this post is because players are getting slightly confused. If a reset is planned we will make sure you get notified about this change.
 
Last edited:
#20
I say the reset should happen.... it would be cool to start from the beginning again on a level playing field... and I might actually come back and play again if the server wasn't so laggy and the divide between players wasn't so big
 

DanSau

Known Member
#21
Why not just reset the world?
What's the fun in that? Don't you guys want a real challenge? :rolleyes:

While I'm well aware people might dislike the idea of a full server restart... I think it will be healthy for the server economy. Perhaps we can even make ranks cheaper? Who knows...
I agreed with everything you had to say, until i read this.
1.
By full resetting the server, you are not magically fixing the economy, you are just starting it over, it will always end up the way it is now. If you are not happy with the eco, then you would need to change the job pay

2.
you could make ranks cheaper right away, a full restart is not needed for that

A full restart and it is not needed, i understand what you mean with wanting to change the relic system, even if we can make a plugin that will take any relic that has been handled and then replace it with a new version,
there are a lot of bugged and "collectible" items on the server that would also be hard to include, like all the blocks with missing textures
So i would say it is okay to just reset the world and then all items. Everything that would be kept would be Mcmmo stats, jobs and your balance
 

SirKillian

Administrator
Staff member
#22
I say the reset should happen.... it would be cool to start from the beginning again on a level playing field... and I might actually come back and play again if the server wasn't so laggy and the divide between players wasn't so big
Our server does not lag. If you have lag that might have to do with your ping.
 

SirKillian

Administrator
Staff member
#23
I agreed with everything you had to say, until i read this.
1.
By full resetting the server, you are not magically fixing the economy, you are just starting it over, it will always end up the way it is now. If you are not happy with the eco, then you would need to change the job pay

2.
you could make ranks cheaper right away, a full restart is not needed for that

A full restart and it is not needed, i understand what you mean with wanting to change the relic system, even if we can make a plugin that will take any relic that has been handled and then replace it with a new version,
there are a lot of bugged and "collectible" items on the server that would also be hard to include, like all the blocks with missing textures
So i would say it is okay to just reset the world and then all items. Everything that would be kept would be Mcmmo stats, jobs and your balance
1. I said "I think it will be healthy for the server economy. " i never said the economy is broken right now nor that it should be changed.

2. I completely disagree with that. it will be unfair for those that already spend a ton of money on their ranks.
 

DanSau

Known Member
#24
1. I said "I think it will be healthy for the server economy. " i never said the economy is broken right now nor that it should be changed.

1. I completely disagree with that. it will be unfair for those that already spend a ton of money on their ranks.
1. Nothing will change about the eco, it will just be younger. So it won't be healthier than just leaving it.
We should work towards making this hard more the least damaging, reducing the things that needs to be reset.
 
#25
1. Nothing will change about the eco, it will just be younger. So it won't be healthier than just leaving it.
We should work towards making this hard more the least damaging, reducing the things that needs to be reset.
I completely agree. I think the majority of people would vote against having jobs and ranks reset. And those who don't generally have low levels, and don't care about anyone else. I could just about guarantee that every one of those people would have a different view if they had put thousands of hours into leveling their jobs to 75+ and getting into the $10m+ ranks. I know that in order to progress with the server it will eventually need to be reset, but as dan said, damage could easily be kept to a minimum. If relatively small changes (like the macro nerf for example) causes high level players to quit, just imagine what a complete reset would do to the community. Sooo many people would quit the server, and the only people left would be (for the most part) all the lower level players that don't care, which would completely change the community. The reset shouldn't be an "opportunity for a fresh start", which would kill the server as we know it, it should just be a necessary change impacting as few things as possible. I don't see any reason to completely reset everything, as nothing good would come from it. Resetting the map, oh well, what must be done must be done. Resetting items would be really bad, but even that wouldn't be the worst thing ever (coming from someone that has around $80m in items), but a job rank and bal reset would tear the server apart. A monumental amount of time would go to waste, and the people that tried so hard to get to where they were would be terribly upset. The goal of the server is to get to as high a level as possible, and stay there. You beat the game? Congrats! You can now fly around the server forever. A restart would flip that view. People would give up. They would stop trying for these goals, since it would all inevitably be reset, and all that time would go to waste. For what? So that the new players could get there "before" anyone else?

I feel like the best way to go about the reset would be (as dan said) to try to change as little as possible. Map would be fine, maybe items could be kept, or there be a way to have them exchanged for approximately half of their value. And also to not reset jobs, ranks and balance. Even if it was by a recovery thread (posting proof to recover job stats etc, which would weed out the inactive players), it wouldn't be too big of a deal. But what sirk said will not fly. That will kill the server, and so many long term players would be completely devastated.