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Rejected Concerning helpers with staff applications

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#1
I've known for a long time that helpers currently don't get any say in new staff members. I personally do not agree with this. I had initially thought that maybe helpers after two months of being on the staff team could partake in the decision, however someone brought up the issue that helpers who haven't yet reached 2 months of being a staff member may feel left out, and it could cause drama.

This is why I ask that you consider allowing helpers to make "letters of recommendation" or at least put in a good word to moderators and admins. As it stands, there are more helpers than moderators and admins right now, and that category of staff is on more than the other two on average. Whilst I am aware that some helpers may still be getting used to being staff members, it does not take a rocket scientist to know who is generally being a good community member and helping out where they can. I am aware that helpers do more than just moderate chat and keep things peaceful. But such an important decision should have like-minded people in on it, and I personally believe that it's wrong to leave the majority of staff out on said decision.

Of course, at the end of the day, this is just my opinion, and others may not agree with this. But I don't particularly see any negative outcomes if this were how staff were picked in the future. If anything, it encourages more players to actually be active within the community, so they can show what positivity and helpfulness they bring to the server. And of course, if more helpers agree that a specific player would do well with being a staff member, it could be passed onto someone higher up to be taken into consideration.
 

Chrras

Well-Known Member
#2
From my years of experience in managing Minecraft servers, I wouldn't say that lower rank staff members (in this case helpers) should partake in any decisions regarding other staff members, including approval of new staff members. Sure, they could recommend someone that already has applied, but in the end it should be up to the server management (admins, and possibly mods) to decide if a person is fit to be a staff member.

In any real life job, an employee can recommend someone, but in the end it's up to the management to decide who to hire - it's not like every workplace is a democracy. A Minecraft server might not follow this analogy completely, but some concepts still applies.

Being a staff member is always a big responsibility, and there is no reason to create further complications, bias, or tension which can compromise staff members.

Of course, this isn't for me to say, neither is it for you Khanii. It's up said server management, but of course that doesn't mean that we cant make suggestions. I just don't believe that decisions like these should be left up to the average staff member.
 
#3
From my years of experience in managing Minecraft servers, I wouldn't say that lower rank staff members (in this case helpers) should partake in any decisions regarding other staff members, including approval of new staff members. Sure, they could recommend someone that already has applied, but in the end it should be up to the server management (admins, and possibly mods) to decide if a person is fit to be a staff member.

In any real life job, an employee can recommend someone, but in the end it's up to the management to decide who to hire - it's not like every workplace is a democracy. A Minecraft server might not follow this analogy completely, but some concepts still applies.

Being a staff member is always a big responsibility, and there is no reason to create further complications, bias, or tension which can compromise staff members.

Of course, this isn't for me to say, neither is it for you Khanii. It's up said server management, but of course that doesn't mean that we cant make suggestions. I just don't believe that decisions like these should be left up to the average staff member.
along with what Chrras has brought up, it should be noted helpers used to be involved. However this has too often lead to the picking of staff who end up completely inactive, not always the fault of either party ofcourse, but something that can be better monitored by higher staff due to naturally higher levels of activity and more knowledge of players. Personally speaking from the perspective having been a staff member a large part of my time on azertu (as i have been mod before) i believe its best to stay in the hands of higher staff
 
#4
Naturally higher levels of activity? Some of the helpers now have high levels of activity and have been around long enough to be useful in finding out what a person is like which in turn would affect their app.... Soooo personally i wouldn't mind a say on the more well known players, the noobs applying after a day of playing couldnt care less....
 
#5
I think my post is being heavily misunderstood. I don't ask that helpers get to partake in the whole decision. I ask that they at least have some sort of impact on it, hence why I said "letters of recommendation". This way helpers don't fully get to decide who they'd like on the team. It's more of a "Hey, this person has been helping out a lot recently, if they've submitted an app I think you should keep them in mind when you pick the next helper" thing. They don't straight out say "This person should 100% be on the staff team" it's "I think this person would do well on the staff team, keep an eye on them". Cosmic is right, activity is one of the biggest aspects of being a staff member. However, this can also be monitored by helpers who are active as well, since they frequent the game more often than any other staff category.
 

DanSau

Known Member
#6
I think my post is being heavily misunderstood. I don't ask that helpers get to partake in the whole decision. I ask that they at least have some sort of impact on it, hence why I said "letters of recommendation". This way helpers don't fully get to decide who they'd like on the team. It's more of a "Hey, this person has been helping out a lot recently, if they've submitted an app I think you should keep them in mind when you pick the next helper" thing. They don't straight out say "This person should 100% be on the staff team" it's "I think this person would do well on the staff team, keep an eye on them". Cosmic is right, activity is one of the biggest aspects of being a staff member. However, this can also be monitored by helpers who are active as well, since they frequent the game more often than any other staff category.
I'd be very surprised if helpers has no say or input in who gets to be a new staff member, since a helper can always just say "hey, i think they guy would probably make a good staff member for this and this reason"
and it is not like that would be ignored, at least when i was a part of the team.

If there ever was an application we were not sure about, i would just send a msg to some online helpers and see how they have interacted with this person before and if they could keep an eye out for them in chat.
as for weather or not helpers should vote on these matters is almost impossible for me to answer, or probably any regular player, since we don't know the current climate in the staff team and how that would play out, when i was there at least we found that it was best to just keep it a higher up staff thing and ask when we were not sure or wanted feedback.

idk why this is being discussed tbh, sounds like a staff thing that the helpers and sirk should be talking about, we don't know any of the facts
 

Chrras

Well-Known Member
#7
Yeah, exactly what Dan says. I'd be very surprised as well if a staff member said to SirK: " This person would be really useful on the staff team, they are super friendly and helpful, and active daily", and then SirK just turned it down.

It seems like this is really a non-issue, or at least not a issue that regular players should bother themselves with. I am not a member of the staff team, so I don't know what the practice is right now, but neither are you Khanii. And as said, I really doubt that helpers would be ignored if the recommended someone.
 

Volk

Administrator
Staff member
#8
Our helpers always have the option to point out good and bad players and this has happened many of times. I often recall the higher-tiered staff asking opinions of the helpers(myself at the time) prior to adding members to the team. We review a lot of applications and it makes it easier to have the staff that know exactly what to look for directly deal with the applications prior to the next stage of asking helpers. In addition, higher tiered staff usually need to learn the bias trait prior to the rank up as it's definitely something that takes getting used to. When picking a staff app, we cannot use bias and we have to pick a good staff member for Azertu not a good friend.

I can honestly say my thoughts in my first weeks of being a helper in comparison to now are entirely different. That being said helpers' opinions are valued and they should mention when we have good players with good applications, then we review the other aspects.

At this point, I feel like the majority of us have the same opinion here as it wasn't really a problem to our knowledge as it's always been a smooth process.
 
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